Declining Range

[Bedford EV]

same here. Both our vehicles have similar reduced range in winter. We have tested one with max heating and heated seats on, and the other not, on the same day so same conditions, and the range difference at set off was staggering. We only turned things up for the test, but quickly reverted to low cabin tempreture (18) and no heated anything - including no pre heat.

Appreciate as pensioners it is different for us as we don't need to travel early morning.
Looking forward to BST.

[Kelvin1066]

Charged my 77kwh 71 reg ID4 overnight to 80% and was surprised to see range available as 150 instead of the expected 180+ - thought oh-oh there's a problem. While driving realised the fan was on halfway rather than low - turned it down as warm enough and noisy. Immediately range went up to 180+. Obviously the range was predicted on fan being on all the time which is noisy and not necessary - heat set at 20 degrees and plenty warm enough. Of course 180 at 80% still much lower than 80% of 300 predicted range but I can live with it. Am waiting for someone to start a class action re false claims by manufacturers and motor magazines. Luckily I still love the car.

[Larry_Lamb]

Why? The WLTP recorded range is no different to WLTP MPG figures for an ICE car, that's been going on for years. If it would have gone to court it'd have happened before EVs turned up.

Its all derived in laboratory conditions which don't match real world conditions. Basically don't believe any of it.

The American tests use real world conditions so more reliable.

EV database gives good indications as to real world figures.

[euanhusarmi]

We have a leased ID4 109kw life pure 52kwh.
Originally, we were charging (as recommended) to 80% and getting 170/180 range (which we took with a pinch of salt anyway as it dropped when anything at all was activated), but this has collapsed to 130miles on 80% and less than 170 on 100%. It took us nearly three months to get an appointment and the garage yesterday told my wife that they have had a lot of customers with similar issues.
We have now had the software update and a change of battery (nothing to do with the charging unit I think??) but the range has not been extended to anything like what was advertised.
This is an issue and seriosuly undermines not only our enjoyment of the car, but our ability to use it fully.
Given the fact that turning on the heating/aircon instantly reduces the range by a minimum 10%, on the recommended 80% charge, we cannot take the car on any round trip of over 100 miles (50 there and back).
Under no circumstances whatseover, would we have picked this car if we had known that fact, and given that VW paid out £190m for misrepresenting emmisions data, I am flabbergasted they have walked strainght back into another potential scandal. The numbers they represented bare zero resemblance to reality and even taking into account the unseasonable weather (is it really THAT unseasonable???), a range of 30-40% below that promised, is a material exaggeration.
The garage have said they were unable to find a fault, so now I am stuck with paying 100% for a car performing at 70% (at best).
I am not prepared to do that and feel that there is power in numbers...I will eagerly listen to any and all ideas on how we get compensated for the falsehoods which have contributed to all of us buying a car that has not matched VW's lies.

[halloweenman]

It depends on use and weather conditions. In the spring and summer you may find it goes back up again. I'm not sure how the range is calculated, I think it's likely it takes your latest driving into account and gives you an expected range based on that.

[Warrior]

This is not just a problem with VW, it's what happens with all EVs in cold conditions.

[tkid]

You'll also note that in traditional ICE cars, your mileage figures (mpg) will also drop in winter but no one seems to complain about that.

In winter, colder air is denser thereby increasing aerodynamic drag on your vehicle, especially when driving at motorway speeds and tyre pressure decreases in colder temperatures, increasing rolling resistance as well.

If your model has it, use the heated seats and heated steering wheel, as this uses less power than heating the air in the cabin. And before a trip you can pre-condition the car whilst plugged in so that it doesn't use the battery to heat up the car.

[Kelvin1066]

Yes mileage drops in ICE cars but not to the extent of EVs. I believe that one day someone will start a class action on the misselling of Evs - the fact that it is not just VWs doesn't make it any better. I feel particularly annoyed that the motoring journals did not pick up the extent of this issue. I originally bought a Peugeot with supposedly 200 range but got rid of it as i did not feel I could do a 100 mile journey without range anxiety. Luckily I sold when 2nd hand prices were high so did not lose much. I like driving electric and didn't want to go back to petrol (especially as I had paid for home charger) and for my purposes the 150 miles (plus 50 left to be safe) range I can achieve in winter with my 77kwh ID4 is enough for my purposes - not sure how I'll feel as the range decreases - just hope that better batteries will be available when that happens.

[tkid]

Well if it's of interest to you, there's a good write up here on how WLTP figures are calculated:

https://www.electrive.com/2022/05/23/ho ... alculated/

On the one hand, users of electric cars experience in real life that they can achieve the ranges from the digital brochures when they are on the road in favourable weather conditions and at a low-speed profile away from the motorway.

The opposite happens at higher speeds and especially in cold weather conditions: power consumption increases significantly due to air resistance when driving fast, and at low temperatures, the battery cells can deliver much less electrical energy, as we found out with a special report in cooperation with P3 Automotive. If the two come together, the range collapses.

Jan Dornoff, an emissions specialist at the ICCT, sees potential for improvement here. According to Dornoff, the test procedure at 23 degrees and without auxiliary consumers such as the air conditioning system leads to idealised measured values. In addition, power consumption and range should be measured in a so-called low-temperature test for all vehicles and made public: “There is already a low-temperature test for electric vehicles at the UN ECE level. This is carried out at minus seven degrees and with activated auxiliary units,” explains Dornoff. There is currently no known timetable for introducing this procedure in the European Union, but “we at the ICCT recommend an introduction as soon as possible to create transparency for customers and legislators”.

The P3 Automotive report mentioned above is here:

https://www.electrive.com/2022/03/15/el ... ng-please/

The cells’ internal resistance increases in cold conditions. The mobility of the lithium ions decreases, and the power delivered drops. The increasing viscosity of the electrolyte in the cold intensifies this effect.
In cold conditions, the energy storage capacity decreases by 30 per cent or more. Charge transport is reduced at low temperatures, also due to the electrolyte’s properties. LFP cells are particularly affected by extreme cold.

I don't think it's a matter of mis-selling and can be considered equivalent to the emissions scandal where VW deliberately engineered a way to defeat emissions testing in their vehicles. All EVs experience this phenomenon in colder conditions.

I do think it would help if the science behind the range testing and battery chemistry was explained better and ultimately improved, but also bear in mind that writing software to accurately take in all parameters around ambient temperature, your driving style, auxiliary power consumption, etc. to calculate a number to give you a remaining range is difficult.